(no subject)

[jhameia]

So tonight I revisited a post written by the awesome cycads on "foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds". Namely, the fetishization of foreign women by (mostly white) men.

I've said before, one of the reasons why I don't often discuss my own fetishes is that I don't feel I can own them, because I, as an Asian woman, AM a fetish. Most people don't surf for "white girl porn". They're usually just looking for porn. But "Asian" - ah, that's a specialty genre. It creeps me out when I hear guys drool over how cute Asian girls are (and usually, girls), how Eastern brides (whether or not Asian, sometimes European) are so much more submissive than [America]s.

Tonight, I read a(n admittedly old) comment which perfectly exemplifies all the fucking skeeviness about guys searching for foreign brides:

Right now, I have been hoping to find a nice foreign wife, and I am most interested particular groups. I would be greatly satisfied to find an equally special wife of my own ethnicity, but I want her different ethnicity cultural background to in a way help represent a certain pureness that is not easily obtained.

What is this pureness, cycads asks. Surely you mean 'uniqueness'. Oh no, according to this guy,

The [laugh]….”pureness” I was speaking of is actually all part of my intent to find a girl whose character is is very special. A virtuous woman.

This virtuous woman, who must be specifically from a different ethnicity and heritage because somehow, that enables her to retain her purity? What the hell does her heritage have to do with it, besides his wanting to spread his genetics further afield (ew yuck!)?

Her difference and race is an additional attempt to amplify the idea. Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.

HOLD ON.

....

HOLD ON.

....

OH MY JESUS ALLAH BUDDHA.

Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.

OH, HI, GUY?

We are not your pets and toys.

We do not exist to be shaped and molded by you.

In fact, that is VERY reminiscent of what abusers do to their victims: isolate them from where they belong to, force them to conform to their ideals.

WTF is this? It's so reminiscent of guys who take virgins so they can train said virgins to their own specific tastes. Sure, it makes sense on some level. If you, you know, make the assumption that your partner is not a person who deserves to live and be shaped by her own experiences. If you like your partner to not be her own person when you claim her.

The whole "partner as possession" factor is made of creepiness. I used to think it was hot, but the more confident I become in myself, the more independent I am (and liking it), the scarier this thought is. And it is everywhere.

The worst thing? This is supposed to be ROMANTIC. The whole "average dude wins angel" trope is supposed to be AWESOME and COOL because it shows that WOMEN ARE TOTALLY NOT SUPERFICIAL (no wait, isn't it the OTHER way around???) and that Good Guys Win the Girl!

Sick sad Nice Guy™ Waiting To Happen backpedals:

It’s clear you may not have immediately understood that I didn’t mean by force and I didn’t literally mean “pulling”. I simply mean just earning the company of someone by “drawing” their attention or interests to oneself.

My response? It is clear you do not come even close to comprehending just how goddamn problematic that framing is. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean that literally. Either way, if that is what you mean, you are filled with Communication Fail.

The company of women is not something to be "earned". By saying that, you frame women as something to be "earned", thus as trophies, as objects to be won. Ergo, as objects.

It is clear you do not even realize you have echoed the sentiments of abusers who isolate their victims, taking the latter from places of comfort for the former's amusement (or sense of control). Or maybe you do realize it and you're just backpedaling.

It is clear you do not even see how you have Other'd cultures different from your own, and women in general.

It is also damned clear you are a Nice Guy-ism™ waiting to happen.

Hell, you know what, I don't even care what you meant.

Attitudes like that are poisonous to both men and women, setting up impossible standards, boxing people into specific codes of behaviour which we could all do without. I am NOT an exotic foreign bride waiting to enter into your life and give you the happiness you oh-so-long-for - neither is ANY OTHER WOMAN, whether Asian or not.

Women aren't trophies, dammit. We're not the fucking Stanley Cup, we're not something you EARN like a fucking salary to keep you alive, we're not something you turn tricks for so you can get our attention. We're people. Stop talking about us like we're not.

*stabbities*

Comments

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

two people will never part because they love each other and they don't feel the same with anyone else.

And again, there's no such guarantee of that ever happening! That is the very trope that has led people to a great deal of misery, which we ought to be working against. It's a nice idea, but it's not for everyone. You're simply parroting yet another idea that excludes different kinds of persons.

And if you're going to get all "but they don't have to be perfectly good looking people!" then you shouldn't have suggested cycads fix her appearance in the first damned place!

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Uhhh, yes there is my friend. Again, finding that match is hard, but it is there. You have to know how to identify it and grow it. There's that cursing stuff again. I was saying fix up her (Jha, I think, NOT CYCADS) and stuff, and I meant it seriously. I'm trying to keep up with each post about this stuff to me, but yeah, I was saying "but they don't have to be perfectly good looking people!", because someone--I can't remember right now--was thinking that I meant perfect even in appearance. And if someone looks perfect to me, maybe her hair is messed up, maybe it's fixed nicely. I might like it depending on how she looks overall. And of course you, generally speaking, will want to make a good impression. Your hair won't be straight in the morning when you wake up to whisper in your love's ear "I love you."
And calm down with the cursing stuff pleeeeease.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

What does it matter WHO you said it to? That was still a messed up suggestion either way!

And perfect match - okay, you know, I can believe in true love and I can believe in growing trust and love that grows. But again, no guarantee. The idea that you will get it, if you behave the right way, if you follow the prescribed rules - it gives people grief.

And I mistrust a person who tells me not to curse. I'm already pretty fucking pissed at you.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

[Laugh]....Pissed because of me? Go get yourself some rest Fantasyecho. I know what love is and how it feels. It feels wonderful and everbonding. And it's not even about bf/gf stuff. Wow, "I mistrust a person who tells me not to curse.." Wow. I don't know what your parents taught you directly or indirectly, but it's still not a good idea to use it. I don't know if I'll be married and/or have children, but I'm sure hoping for those things. God willing, I will. No promise that I'll find a wife. [smile]....I imagine that the next thing you will say will be something reeeeeeally negative about that idea.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

Good for you, Timmy! You have loving parents who taught you to be nice.

Nice backpedaling, bub.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

[smile]....Ok, I looked up "backpedal", and it came out to be what I thought, but....I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. :(

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Her space, her rules, bub. If she wants to curse she can damn well do it.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

..............uh, yeah.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Why all the periods? You doubting it? Did your poor little brain get raised with the expectation that your penis would entitle you to make the rules for everybody? Or are you just boggled at how women dare to be themselves instead of falling in line with what you think they should be?

If you were, instead, trying to agree, you should express it clearly and respectfully with no room for doubt as to your intentions. Ah, but clearly that would be asking too much of you.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

No, it wasn't to indicate doubt. Just seem like you were just some person who wasn't saying anything for the whole time that was just holding grudge against me because you were naturally on the side of the women messaging against me, that just BURST out of the crowd watching just say something insulting to me that's not really relevant to the progress of the discussion. I mean think about it for a sec, "Her space, her rules, bub. If she wants to curse she can damn well do it." Never said she couldn't do it.
"Why all the periods? You doubting it? Did your poor little brain get raised with the expectation that your penis would entitle you to make the rules for everybody? Or are you just boggled at how women dare to be themselves instead of falling in line with what you think they should be?"
That's funny, it's like bad unimportant line in a movie.
"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Never said she couldn't do it.
You said she shouldn't do it. It's high-handed and presumptuous behavior to tell people what's appropriate when it's not your place.

that just BURST out of the crowd
Maybe I was giving you the benefit of the doubt at first to see what kind of person you were. Ever considered that? You're only getting what you gave.

That's funny, it's like bad unimportant line in a movie.
You have a reading comprehension problem. Just thought you should know.

that's not really relevant to the progress of the discussion.
If you're that determined for a discussion to make 'progress' maybe you should try leading by example. Learn to admit when you're wrong. Learn to compromise. Learn to obey rules instead of trying to make them all the time. Learn how to phrase your points clearly to keep people from getting people irrevocably mad at you. And if you make a slip, admit it instead of trying to cover it up and make yourself look blameless.

But you're not good enough to handle that, are you? Dare I use the terribly gendered phrasing of this here English language, you're not man enough to keep your dignity in the face of an onslaught. So with no intellectual recourse you resort to the common troll act of mass repetition.

Yes, we know, you think you're a nice guy instead of a Nice GuyTM, but a genuinely nice person would not be trying to smack the e-shit out of someone just because she didn't share your views. Don't even bother with the 'she brung it first' argument. You came here uninvited to her online space and proceeded to be a sexist ass. She is not obligated to appreciate your presence. She has every right to object to your shenanigans. You want to be able to make the rules for people, go get your own blog somewhere else.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Ok, first off, I was invited, by Cycads. [laugh]...Cycads and Jha are LG or L(something) budies right? Who invited you? And uhm for the I-don't-know-what time, I did admit where I was wrong, other than that, I just gave explanations to things that were unclear. [Laugh]..."cover it up"[laugh]...Me repeating is to show continuous consistence. Too late for Fantasyecho, if she doesn't want to be hypocrtitical then she can't go back on her statement, "And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress." The people who don't "share my views" express that to me and they "usually" say why, thus leaving room for argument (not fussing, just response). [laugh]...If someone slaps you in the face suddenly, I don't think they were focused on giving you the "benefit of the doubt". Even without that said, tell me, were you reeeeally giving me the benefit of the doubt with a statement like that? Oh and yeah, some typing errors. Heh..Other than that, just breaking a few rules. Never said my writing was great or perfect.
"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

An invitation from one is not an invitation from the other, bud.

Where did you admit you were wrong again? All there is here is a bunch of you 'explaining' why you're right, everybody else is wrong and what you're so sure must be wrong with them. You made no attempt to educate yourself here, despite the links provided, and you weren't listening at all from the very start. Frankly, you were being nonconstructive long before everybody else gave up on you, so there's no room for you of all people to be calling for 'progress'. The time for giving you the benefit of the doubt has long past. Take what you get.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

It was a "I was wrong BUT you totally took it the wrong way!" Which isn't really an apology, so screw that shit. And not only did he "give explanations"... actually, he didn't.