(no subject)

[jhameia]

So tonight I revisited a post written by the awesome cycads on "foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds". Namely, the fetishization of foreign women by (mostly white) men.

I've said before, one of the reasons why I don't often discuss my own fetishes is that I don't feel I can own them, because I, as an Asian woman, AM a fetish. Most people don't surf for "white girl porn". They're usually just looking for porn. But "Asian" - ah, that's a specialty genre. It creeps me out when I hear guys drool over how cute Asian girls are (and usually, girls), how Eastern brides (whether or not Asian, sometimes European) are so much more submissive than [America]s.

Tonight, I read a(n admittedly old) comment which perfectly exemplifies all the fucking skeeviness about guys searching for foreign brides:

Right now, I have been hoping to find a nice foreign wife, and I am most interested particular groups. I would be greatly satisfied to find an equally special wife of my own ethnicity, but I want her different ethnicity cultural background to in a way help represent a certain pureness that is not easily obtained.

What is this pureness, cycads asks. Surely you mean 'uniqueness'. Oh no, according to this guy,

The [laugh]….”pureness” I was speaking of is actually all part of my intent to find a girl whose character is is very special. A virtuous woman.

This virtuous woman, who must be specifically from a different ethnicity and heritage because somehow, that enables her to retain her purity? What the hell does her heritage have to do with it, besides his wanting to spread his genetics further afield (ew yuck!)?

Her difference and race is an additional attempt to amplify the idea. Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.

HOLD ON.

....

HOLD ON.

....

OH MY JESUS ALLAH BUDDHA.

Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.

OH, HI, GUY?

We are not your pets and toys.

We do not exist to be shaped and molded by you.

In fact, that is VERY reminiscent of what abusers do to their victims: isolate them from where they belong to, force them to conform to their ideals.

WTF is this? It's so reminiscent of guys who take virgins so they can train said virgins to their own specific tastes. Sure, it makes sense on some level. If you, you know, make the assumption that your partner is not a person who deserves to live and be shaped by her own experiences. If you like your partner to not be her own person when you claim her.

The whole "partner as possession" factor is made of creepiness. I used to think it was hot, but the more confident I become in myself, the more independent I am (and liking it), the scarier this thought is. And it is everywhere.

The worst thing? This is supposed to be ROMANTIC. The whole "average dude wins angel" trope is supposed to be AWESOME and COOL because it shows that WOMEN ARE TOTALLY NOT SUPERFICIAL (no wait, isn't it the OTHER way around???) and that Good Guys Win the Girl!

Sick sad Nice Guy™ Waiting To Happen backpedals:

It’s clear you may not have immediately understood that I didn’t mean by force and I didn’t literally mean “pulling”. I simply mean just earning the company of someone by “drawing” their attention or interests to oneself.

My response? It is clear you do not come even close to comprehending just how goddamn problematic that framing is. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean that literally. Either way, if that is what you mean, you are filled with Communication Fail.

The company of women is not something to be "earned". By saying that, you frame women as something to be "earned", thus as trophies, as objects to be won. Ergo, as objects.

It is clear you do not even realize you have echoed the sentiments of abusers who isolate their victims, taking the latter from places of comfort for the former's amusement (or sense of control). Or maybe you do realize it and you're just backpedaling.

It is clear you do not even see how you have Other'd cultures different from your own, and women in general.

It is also damned clear you are a Nice Guy-ism™ waiting to happen.

Hell, you know what, I don't even care what you meant.

Attitudes like that are poisonous to both men and women, setting up impossible standards, boxing people into specific codes of behaviour which we could all do without. I am NOT an exotic foreign bride waiting to enter into your life and give you the happiness you oh-so-long-for - neither is ANY OTHER WOMAN, whether Asian or not.

Women aren't trophies, dammit. We're not the fucking Stanley Cup, we're not something you EARN like a fucking salary to keep you alive, we're not something you turn tricks for so you can get our attention. We're people. Stop talking about us like we're not.

*stabbities*

Comments

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Uhhh, DUH!That's a solution and it's a good one if it is the best way to solve the problem. And what's with the whole "hardcore creepy vibes"? I don't really get it. :(

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

I guess you're still in denial of the fact that you do come off as a very creepy dude.

The proper, more productive response is not "you oversensitive women!!!!" The more productive response is, "I'm sorry, what did I say?"

Which I've been answering anyway, and if you'd just bothered to read what I said rather than keep defending yourself, you might figure out more easily what's with the hardcore creepy vibes we've been getting from you.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I responded more like "[smile]....NOooooo, not like that. [smile]... Let me explain what I mean." I don't see how it is creepy for someone to their best to speak favorably, but are misunderstood to be speaking unfavorably. Then even after explaining it properly, the listeners still keep focusing on what was said at first and still try to find every single POSSIBLE error JUST to attack with great force.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

Again: Not. Interested. In. Your Explanation. Not when you've shown yourself to be scared of possible other interpretations of your behaviour.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

OOOH!!! That explains why you have a bad understanding. Iiii get it now. And uhh, I'm sure if you didn't feel uncomfortable with my interpretation of your behavior, then you would not have shown your "fear" of me misunderstanding. Duh.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

The respect is just bubbling over in this one, isn't it, ladies?

[/sarcasm]

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

inorite.

My space clearly doesn't count for shit since I AM the Embittered Single Woman™ *rolls eyes* And for all his yak about respect, he really doesn't know that he crossed the line a very long time ago.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Nah, I respected throughout, and I never called you stupid. I called some of the things you said stupid though because it just....wasn't right, like that idea about a perfect match being an illusion. And the dog thing.....hmmm just a funny good comparison, because you really sounded like you were just constantly screaming at me for no reason. I didn't say it just to say "women are dogs" or " you are a dog". Just the focusing on the screaming thing and the idea that you are speaking from teh perspective of the hurt person or hurt group, or betrayed group, you know.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

You don't have to call someone a jackass to be insulting them, boy. What you're doing is speaking of women as if they are worth less than you, as if they should be fulfilling a role that benefits you, not themselves, as if their feelings are somehow invalid, as if they don't have a right to act as they please even in their own damned space.

What evidence did fantasyecho ever give you that she was 'the hurt person'? The 'screaming' doesn't count because there are plenty of happily attached people here doing the same. You're just doggedly trying to convince yourself that the 'screaming' is solid evidence that the poor widdle woman is hurting and that's why she can't understand you. And you need to convince yourself of that because otherwise you'd have to face up to the fact that you come off as patronizing scum.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Look plain and simple. I don't think women are less than me in the sense you all are making it. Yeah, I said the whole trophy thing, but that was not all meant like she is just a thing or something. I can replace the word with "Glorious thing created by God and given to me from Him". THAT'S what I meant, not the way you all took it, which is understandable that you took it that way. Again for the 3rd or 4th time, I used the wrong idea and words to express what I meant. It was bad! And no, I'm not assuming that Jha is hurt. I KNOW she is of the side that has been hurt, by betrayal. I'm not saying that all you or all those women were each betrayed by some guy. I'm saying the entirety of the women has been betrayed in the sense that a significant amount of men, who promised good, betrayed a significant amount of women, thus creating a great mistrust.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[divabat.livejournal.com]

I KNOW she is of the side that has been hurt, by betrayal.
Proof?

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Uhm, I was starting to look for the specific things in her posts and the post about foreign bodies, but it's too much work since I have to look at each thing because I'm not exactly sure where it's located. Anyway, this EEEEEEEENTIIIIIIIRE blog was initially about foreign women and the men seeking them. It later went into the man:woman relationship period. You've been posting too about it. And someone, I can't remember if it was you or Tenchan or somebody, http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/08/terrible-bargain-we-have-regretfully.html

So yeah. Hey, I have to ask you something--not to try to be sly or offensive, but about all of this. Are we here to make progress? I ask this to you because of something someone else said. Hopefully you didn't read what they said, because you MIGHT just agree just because.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

What a weird thing to do.

Here I thought it was common knowledge that EVERYONE is hurt or betrayed at some point or another. This does not make them any less or more intelligent at being able to critique and analyze what other people say. Apparently this latter fact is less common knowledge than I thought.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fionnabhair-ii.livejournal.com]

I can replace the word with "Glorious thing created by God and given to me from Him". THAT'S what I meant, not the way you all took it, which is understandable that you took it that way.

That revised statement isn't helping your case at all. Glorious thing created by God and given to me from Him is still using language with reduces women to objects that can be owned.

You might as well just stick with "trophy", seeing as it's shorter and easier to type.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

I used thing on purpose because I want to acknowledge that we are of one of the beautiful things He has created. I said "me" because yes, whatever God made and put here, He made for us all (men and women). I said to someone also, reusing this same thing "Glorious thing created by God and given to me from Him" and said that the same is for men to women as well. You're just trying your best to deform what I'm saying. Trying way to hard. Just doesn't make sense. Steady trying to make it seem like I'm trying to belittle women.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fionnabhair-ii.livejournal.com]

That's because you are belittling women.

Also, I'm an atheist, so I'm not buying that what you're saying is supposed to be a compliment.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Wow!
.......That explains a LOT. I rest my case. I'll keep praying for you.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

So much for the love and acceptance your Christ preached.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[fionnabhair-ii.livejournal.com]

No, you sanctimonious jackass, all it explains is that I won't accept religion as an excuse for misogyny.

The word "thing" means that you're speaking about an object, not a human being. Other "things" that, according to Genesis, your god created (yeah, I'm an atheist, but I know the bible, too), include dirt. Now, unless you're taking Genesis 3:19 literally, a human being has more value than that, and shouldn't be referred to as a "thing" as a result. Calling her a "thing" is no different than calling her a trophy, regardless of the theological bullshit you dress it up in.

Keep your prayers. I'd prefer you spent that time reading this (http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/), instead.

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

Uhhh....I wasn't speaking to everyone. I was speaking to one person. Don't try to twist it.
http://abetwabe.deviantart.com/art/Tree-Sap2-131370604

Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....

[(Anonymous)]

If you can't respect a woman in her own space nobody's going to have a very good opinion of you. There's no 'twisting' involved.

Funny how you see that kind of art as representative of an ideal relationship and yet seem to have no room for the equality it presents.