(no subject)

[jhameia]

So tonight I revisited a post written by the awesome cycads on "foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds". Namely, the fetishization of foreign women by (mostly white) men.

I've said before, one of the reasons why I don't often discuss my own fetishes is that I don't feel I can own them, because I, as an Asian woman, AM a fetish. Most people don't surf for "white girl porn". They're usually just looking for porn. But "Asian" - ah, that's a specialty genre. It creeps me out when I hear guys drool over how cute Asian girls are (and usually, girls), how Eastern brides (whether or not Asian, sometimes European) are so much more submissive than [America]s.

Tonight, I read a(n admittedly old) comment which perfectly exemplifies all the fucking skeeviness about guys searching for foreign brides:

Right now, I have been hoping to find a nice foreign wife, and I am most interested particular groups. I would be greatly satisfied to find an equally special wife of my own ethnicity, but I want her different ethnicity cultural background to in a way help represent a certain pureness that is not easily obtained.

What is this pureness, cycads asks. Surely you mean 'uniqueness'. Oh no, according to this guy,

The [laugh]….”pureness” I was speaking of is actually all part of my intent to find a girl whose character is is very special. A virtuous woman.

This virtuous woman, who must be specifically from a different ethnicity and heritage because somehow, that enables her to retain her purity? What the hell does her heritage have to do with it, besides his wanting to spread his genetics further afield (ew yuck!)?

Her difference and race is an additional attempt to amplify the idea. Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.

HOLD ON.

....

HOLD ON.

....

OH MY JESUS ALLAH BUDDHA.

Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.

OH, HI, GUY?

We are not your pets and toys.

We do not exist to be shaped and molded by you.

In fact, that is VERY reminiscent of what abusers do to their victims: isolate them from where they belong to, force them to conform to their ideals.

WTF is this? It's so reminiscent of guys who take virgins so they can train said virgins to their own specific tastes. Sure, it makes sense on some level. If you, you know, make the assumption that your partner is not a person who deserves to live and be shaped by her own experiences. If you like your partner to not be her own person when you claim her.

The whole "partner as possession" factor is made of creepiness. I used to think it was hot, but the more confident I become in myself, the more independent I am (and liking it), the scarier this thought is. And it is everywhere.

The worst thing? This is supposed to be ROMANTIC. The whole "average dude wins angel" trope is supposed to be AWESOME and COOL because it shows that WOMEN ARE TOTALLY NOT SUPERFICIAL (no wait, isn't it the OTHER way around???) and that Good Guys Win the Girl!

Sick sad Nice Guy™ Waiting To Happen backpedals:

It’s clear you may not have immediately understood that I didn’t mean by force and I didn’t literally mean “pulling”. I simply mean just earning the company of someone by “drawing” their attention or interests to oneself.

My response? It is clear you do not come even close to comprehending just how goddamn problematic that framing is. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean that literally. Either way, if that is what you mean, you are filled with Communication Fail.

The company of women is not something to be "earned". By saying that, you frame women as something to be "earned", thus as trophies, as objects to be won. Ergo, as objects.

It is clear you do not even realize you have echoed the sentiments of abusers who isolate their victims, taking the latter from places of comfort for the former's amusement (or sense of control). Or maybe you do realize it and you're just backpedaling.

It is clear you do not even see how you have Other'd cultures different from your own, and women in general.

It is also damned clear you are a Nice Guy-ism™ waiting to happen.

Hell, you know what, I don't even care what you meant.

Attitudes like that are poisonous to both men and women, setting up impossible standards, boxing people into specific codes of behaviour which we could all do without. I am NOT an exotic foreign bride waiting to enter into your life and give you the happiness you oh-so-long-for - neither is ANY OTHER WOMAN, whether Asian or not.

Women aren't trophies, dammit. We're not the fucking Stanley Cup, we're not something you EARN like a fucking salary to keep you alive, we're not something you turn tricks for so you can get our attention. We're people. Stop talking about us like we're not.

*stabbities*

Comments

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

Ahhhhh, and here it is again. See, the idea of a good guy or any good at all existing is too hard to believe because you have been let down. What you've heard and probably believed with all of your heart, has been thrown away because someone screwed up who promised these things as well. Well, that doesn't make me a monster. So it's now clear that YOU DO KNOW THAT ALL OF WHAT I AM SAYING IS OF GOOD. So it's not fair to call me a monster or whatever it is that has shown itself as the later end of something good. Like any INNOCENT person of society, they are not called criminals, killers, and stuff, they are called people of society, innocent until proven guilty. You can't prove I'm guilty. I have only played by the rules and just because I CAN BREAK THE RULES, doesn't mean I will. Your comment proves again that all of the stuff you all have been coming at me with negatively, is just unfair and blind attacks. You can't prove I'm a monster just because I say what most others say, "I'm going to be good." who betray you and the trust that bound you together. Again, it's completely fair for you (speaking generally not just about women too), to put great guard up for your heart. That's alright, but calling me a criminal when I have not yet done wrong but echo the words of a liar who stole them from a truthful person.

Re: Imperfect...

[divabat.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHA. So are you the sort that would go up to a lesbian and say "oh you just haven't had a good man"? Because you sound like it.

When a MARRIED MAN and an ATTACHED WOMAN amongst other people tell you you're full of shit, you might want to pay attention. For one thing, we're not telling you this because we're somehow love-less. You know, some people actually like being single! Some people don't give a damn! Some people don't make being someone's Other their central purpose in life! How crazy is that!

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

Uhm...I never said that was my purpose, and that definitely isn't what I believe is my life's purpose. [laugh]...That would be crazy stupid. That's would be just like those characters on some movies (guys) who believe their life is completed once they "SCORE". And if you didn't give a d*mn, then you shouldn't have mentioned the idea of na..i..v...[checks notepad]...Ah! NAIVETY! And if you like being single, then it is the reason you choose to do that, that you are drawn to respond here to me. [wink]...Oh, and no, I wouldn't go up to a lesbian in the first place about something like that, but I will give my word on the matter of finding your special someone if it is a topic of discussion in which I'm included. So if it is the topic, I wouldn't say "oh you should get the right guy" or something like that, I would hope that there's a straight woman in the conversation who I may say it to and let the lesbian hear as I speak, but ONLY if the woman is looking to willing to find reason why she should not give up. We should let others see and observe so that they may learn from us good things.

Re: Imperfect...

[divabat.livejournal.com]

hahahahah you're so full of yourself it's funny.

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

[laughing].....................Nothing else to say?



"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."

Re: Imperfect...

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

I have a life too, you know. This entails actually focusing on stuff other than you. Sorry you can't be the center of my world, but then, with your shitty attitude, whose world could you ever possibly be the center of?

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

[Laughing].................MY sh*tty attitude? You've been fussing at me the whole time. [laugh]...You even sent me the heart felt message:
"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."

Re: Imperfect...

[fionnabhair-ii.livejournal.com]

You keep repeating that phrase. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Also, stop mocking her by repeating it all the damn time. You're doing a piss-poor job of convincing people that you respect women as it is, and this isn't helping your case.

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

How would my repeating of what Fantasyecho said, be making it seem like I'm doing a bad job of convincing people that I respect women? No,I'm doing a good job pointing out where many people with the mindset presented by Fantasyecho through a heart-felt phrase like that fail. And no, it means exactly what she meant. She used it to argue directly back at what I said about making progress here. It's like definition by contradiction.

"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."
"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."
"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

Ooh, look at all the repetition! We've seen this before too, haven't we? Common troll tactic when they're really starting to spume. He's lost his cool, folks! Just a little bit more and we can make this troglodyte spontaneously combust!

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

Uhh, well, it wasn't to show my anger or something. It was repeat it more simply because you mentioned it. I want your attention to it, and I got it. [smile]...

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

Ooh, look at all the repetition! We've seen this before too, haven't we? Common troll tactic when they're really starting to spume. He's lost his cool, folks! Just a little bit more and we can make the troglodyte spontaneously combust!

Re: Imperfect...

[fionnabhair-ii.livejournal.com]

Reading comprehension fail. I'll try to use smaller words, this time.

You mocking Jha by repeating that phrase all the time shows that you do not respect her. You are trying to make the case that you respect women (and you're doing a bad job of it). Mocking the owner of the blog you're commenting at isn't helping convince people that you respect women.

Re: Imperfect...

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

Hmmmmmmm, let's see.

Premise: I respect women.
Premise: I should respect people even when they disagree with me (or so you keep implying, since you insist that I respect you)
Premise: FantasyEcho is a woman.
Premise: FantasyEcho disagrees with me.
Premise: FantasyEcho is being blatantly disrespectful to me in disagreeing.
Conclusion: I should be disrespectful right back at her, because it will totally prove my first premise.

............

????????????????????????

Re: Imperfect...

[tariq-kamal.livejournal.com]

As far as I'm concerned, she let you in. I'd have shut you up by the sixth comment.

Do not expect to get respect back when the first act you do when you enter the house is to take over the house-owner's bed and then begin masturbating furiously over it.

Just saying.

Re: Imperfect...

[tariq-kamal.livejournal.com]

Haha, oh yeah, I'm married!

Re: Imperfect...

[divabat.livejournal.com]

lol, have you forgotten XD

Re: Imperfect...

[tariq-kamal.livejournal.com]

Ho ho, not unless I want hanishoney to kill me. XD

I just get freaked out when people refer to me as "that married guy". I go, "Eh, who la?" and then "OH YAHHHH!"

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

Boy, you are a self-confessed virgin with limited romantic experience, if any. From the reams of what you've spewed so far, your idea of relationships is based on fairytales and stereotypes, not reality. Why do you feel the need to keep lecturing us, a group of largely attached people, about what relationships are like and what a 'good man' is when you clearly haven't had a chance to learn jack about it yourself? Doesn't it strike you that the people who have had relationships, whether good or bad, can tell better than you what the warning signs are? You are BAD NEWS, honey. You just don't know enough yet to spot it in yourself.

And for the record, a truly good partner doesn't need to announce that they're going to be good the way you keep doing. They show it, something you haven't managed yet.

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

Uhm, yeah, I said that already. [laugh]...I said that I can't prove it here with what I say, and so you all can't prove that I'm this bad thing that you believe is inevitable to occur. Oh, and just because I'm a virgin, doesn't mean that I don't understand relationships. Relationships are not about sex. virginity is directly related to sex, right? Right?? Anyway, I know what love is and how well it feels, just because I'm a virgin doesn't mean I've no knowledge of relationships. [laugh]...Interesting, people who meet me in real life just find it unbelievable that I'm single and a virgin. [laughing]....That's because they have SEEN my ways and are witnesses to what I claim to exist here. I base my "idea"--although my knowledge actually--purely on self experience and the experience of others who I have learned from."limited romantic experience" [laugh]...Romance isn't about sex, it's about the mushiness(hehe) of a developing relationship between two people who intend to be together expressing their love on another level. What is friendship? Well, whatever it is, is the most important thing you will need in developing a healthy relationship with anyone bf/gf, wife/husband or just two or more people. I mentioned to someone on here about how my ideas of relationship came about. I said this to Cycads in her post: "Due to past unpleasant experiences with people treating me unfairly in elementary school, I made a promise to myself during that time that I will always be kind to other people, observe everyone and everything (bad or good), learn from them, and use that knowledge to help my understanding and better communicate and share the things I love, like love itself, with everyone. I’ve kept my promise. As my life went on and still is of course, I’ve kept that promise, and I know my attempt to make the good image being destroyed here in this article continue to be shown in all of it’s glory even if almost everything makes it seem hopeless. I don’t believe you think I’m here to make enemies, or make myself enemy to anyone. I know you saw how others approached me in my ideas. You had a few problems with how they seemed too, but I was sure I straightened that out with you. I know I can’t make women trust guys from what I say. I can only “echo the words of the liar who stole his words from the truth teller”. I also said "I only save myself and all my greatest love for my wife and my kids to be." Again relationship between two people is NOT ABOUT SEX. Yes, sex is something that will usually be wanted from either/both side(s) in a bf/gf|wife/husband relationship, but that's only for those kind of relationships and it's just something that is supposed to be done for the purpose of them further enjoying the physical company of each other. That's all coming from a virgin.

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

And it's hyper-idealistic bunk. It's ridiculous to be lecturing people about the nature of relationships when theirs work and you've never even had anything close, sex or no sex.

You've built your ideas of romance on outdated, excessively restrictive gender roles. You expect women to fall in line with this role to attract a man while exhibiting no intention to do any work on yourself. You don't have to have sex to understand what makes a relationship work but you DO have to listen to other people and understand that their opinions matter. You have to be willing to admit when you're wrong. You don't do that at all. You claim to be one kind of person and then act in a completely opposite manner. You honestly think we don't know what that means? You're a liar, sugar, and the only person you're fooling right now is yourself.

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

Uhhhm....Where have I NOT admitted my wrong? No, my idea of "romance" is not built on gender roles. I haven't told you what I think romance is to me. So how can you say my ideas about romance?????? And uhh, no, I don't expect women to just fall in some role. You totally must have not read where I've said "..I would love to brag about my wife, but if I am shortcoming of the things I brag about her possessing, then I am not fair to her." I've talked about that idea a number of times wherever someone thought that I was just thinking of myself. UHHHHH AND YES, DUH.....Of course you have to listen to their opinion. If you don't, then there is no good solution. I already said that about 3 times. I keep having to reuse the same things I said earlier to respond to a new comment. Constantly going in circles to find flaw in the consistency of what I'm saying. [laugh]...Why say "And it's hyper-idealistic bunk. It's ridiculous to be lecturing people about the nature of relationships when theirs work and you've never even had anything close, sex or no sex." Then come back around and say "You don't have to have sex to understand what makes a relationship work". You shouldn't have said the first part in the first place then.

"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

The sex point stands because if you do not understand how that impacts a relationship, you have no call to be lecturing those whose relationships involve it. Maybe you do have some limited understanding of the basics of a relationship, but it's not enough to serve your lecturing purposes here.

No, you are not listening to opinions. You have not admitted where you were wrong. You are consistently explaining how you're right and everybody else is wrong and telling them what you think must be wrong with them. Seriously, if you hoped to have any chance at redeeming yourself here, just apologize to fantasyecho for starting shit in her journal when you could and should have stayed in your space, then leave. Otherwise, trolls are only good for poking.

Re: Imperfect...

[fantasyecho.livejournal.com]

And SMORES!

Re: Imperfect...

[(Anonymous)]

Repeat:

"[laugh]...Romance isn't about sex, it's about the mushiness(hehe) of a developing relationship between two people who intend to be together expressing their love on another level. What is friendship? Well, whatever it is, is the most important thing you will need in developing a healthy relationship with anyone bf/gf, wife/husband or just two or more people......"
"...Again relationship between two people is NOT ABOUT SEX. Yes, sex is something that will usually be wanted from either/both side(s) in a bf/gf|wife/husband relationship, but that's only for those kind of relationships and it's just something that is supposed to be done for the purpose of them further enjoying the physical company of each other...."

Check the date on your food supplies. I think it's all expired.