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Aug. 25th, 2009 09:44 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jhameiaSo tonight I revisited a post written by the awesome cycads on "foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds". Namely, the fetishization of foreign women by (mostly white) men.
I've said before, one of the reasons why I don't often discuss my own fetishes is that I don't feel I can own them, because I, as an Asian woman, AM a fetish. Most people don't surf for "white girl porn". They're usually just looking for porn. But "Asian" - ah, that's a specialty genre. It creeps me out when I hear guys drool over how cute Asian girls are (and usually, girls), how Eastern brides (whether or not Asian, sometimes European) are so much more submissive than [America]s.
Tonight, I read a(n admittedly old) comment which perfectly exemplifies all the fucking skeeviness about guys searching for foreign brides:
What is this pureness, cycads asks. Surely you mean 'uniqueness'. Oh no, according to this guy,
This virtuous woman, who must be specifically from a different ethnicity and heritage because somehow, that enables her to retain her purity? What the hell does her heritage have to do with it, besides his wanting to spread his genetics further afield (ew yuck!)?
HOLD ON.
....
HOLD ON.
....
OH MY JESUS ALLAH BUDDHA.
Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.
OH, HI, GUY?
We are not your pets and toys.
We do not exist to be shaped and molded by you.
In fact, that is VERY reminiscent of what abusers do to their victims: isolate them from where they belong to, force them to conform to their ideals.
WTF is this? It's so reminiscent of guys who take virgins so they can train said virgins to their own specific tastes. Sure, it makes sense on some level. If you, you know, make the assumption that your partner is not a person who deserves to live and be shaped by her own experiences. If you like your partner to not be her own person when you claim her.
The whole "partner as possession" factor is made of creepiness. I used to think it was hot, but the more confident I become in myself, the more independent I am (and liking it), the scarier this thought is. And it is everywhere.
The worst thing? This is supposed to be ROMANTIC. The whole "average dude wins angel" trope is supposed to be AWESOME and COOL because it shows that WOMEN ARE TOTALLY NOT SUPERFICIAL (no wait, isn't it the OTHER way around???) and that Good Guys Win the Girl!
Sick sad Nice Guy™ Waiting To Happen backpedals:
My response? It is clear you do not come even close to comprehending just how goddamn problematic that framing is. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean that literally. Either way, if that is what you mean, you are filled with Communication Fail.
The company of women is not something to be "earned". By saying that, you frame women as something to be "earned", thus as trophies, as objects to be won. Ergo, as objects.
It is clear you do not even realize you have echoed the sentiments of abusers who isolate their victims, taking the latter from places of comfort for the former's amusement (or sense of control). Or maybe you do realize it and you're just backpedaling.
It is clear you do not even see how you have Other'd cultures different from your own, and women in general.
It is also damned clear you are a Nice Guy-ism™ waiting to happen.
Hell, you know what, I don't even care what you meant.
Attitudes like that are poisonous to both men and women, setting up impossible standards, boxing people into specific codes of behaviour which we could all do without. I am NOT an exotic foreign bride waiting to enter into your life and give you the happiness you oh-so-long-for - neither is ANY OTHER WOMAN, whether Asian or not.
Women aren't trophies, dammit. We're not the fucking Stanley Cup, we're not something you EARN like a fucking salary to keep you alive, we're not something you turn tricks for so you can get our attention. We're people. Stop talking about us like we're not.
*stabbities*
I've said before, one of the reasons why I don't often discuss my own fetishes is that I don't feel I can own them, because I, as an Asian woman, AM a fetish. Most people don't surf for "white girl porn". They're usually just looking for porn. But "Asian" - ah, that's a specialty genre. It creeps me out when I hear guys drool over how cute Asian girls are (and usually, girls), how Eastern brides (whether or not Asian, sometimes European) are so much more submissive than [America]s.
Tonight, I read a(n admittedly old) comment which perfectly exemplifies all the fucking skeeviness about guys searching for foreign brides:
Right now, I have been hoping to find a nice foreign wife, and I am most interested particular groups. I would be greatly satisfied to find an equally special wife of my own ethnicity, but I want her different ethnicity cultural background to in a way help represent a certain pureness that is not easily obtained.
What is this pureness, cycads asks. Surely you mean 'uniqueness'. Oh no, according to this guy,
The [laugh]….”pureness” I was speaking of is actually all part of my intent to find a girl whose character is is very special. A virtuous woman.
This virtuous woman, who must be specifically from a different ethnicity and heritage because somehow, that enables her to retain her purity? What the hell does her heritage have to do with it, besides his wanting to spread his genetics further afield (ew yuck!)?
Her difference and race is an additional attempt to amplify the idea. Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.
HOLD ON.
....
HOLD ON.
....
OH MY JESUS ALLAH BUDDHA.
Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.
OH, HI, GUY?
We are not your pets and toys.
We do not exist to be shaped and molded by you.
In fact, that is VERY reminiscent of what abusers do to their victims: isolate them from where they belong to, force them to conform to their ideals.
WTF is this? It's so reminiscent of guys who take virgins so they can train said virgins to their own specific tastes. Sure, it makes sense on some level. If you, you know, make the assumption that your partner is not a person who deserves to live and be shaped by her own experiences. If you like your partner to not be her own person when you claim her.
The whole "partner as possession" factor is made of creepiness. I used to think it was hot, but the more confident I become in myself, the more independent I am (and liking it), the scarier this thought is. And it is everywhere.
The worst thing? This is supposed to be ROMANTIC. The whole "average dude wins angel" trope is supposed to be AWESOME and COOL because it shows that WOMEN ARE TOTALLY NOT SUPERFICIAL (no wait, isn't it the OTHER way around???) and that Good Guys Win the Girl!
Sick sad Nice Guy™ Waiting To Happen backpedals:
It’s clear you may not have immediately understood that I didn’t mean by force and I didn’t literally mean “pulling”. I simply mean just earning the company of someone by “drawing” their attention or interests to oneself.
My response? It is clear you do not come even close to comprehending just how goddamn problematic that framing is. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean that literally. Either way, if that is what you mean, you are filled with Communication Fail.
The company of women is not something to be "earned". By saying that, you frame women as something to be "earned", thus as trophies, as objects to be won. Ergo, as objects.
It is clear you do not even realize you have echoed the sentiments of abusers who isolate their victims, taking the latter from places of comfort for the former's amusement (or sense of control). Or maybe you do realize it and you're just backpedaling.
It is clear you do not even see how you have Other'd cultures different from your own, and women in general.
It is also damned clear you are a Nice Guy-ism™ waiting to happen.
Hell, you know what, I don't even care what you meant.
Attitudes like that are poisonous to both men and women, setting up impossible standards, boxing people into specific codes of behaviour which we could all do without. I am NOT an exotic foreign bride waiting to enter into your life and give you the happiness you oh-so-long-for - neither is ANY OTHER WOMAN, whether Asian or not.
Women aren't trophies, dammit. We're not the fucking Stanley Cup, we're not something you EARN like a fucking salary to keep you alive, we're not something you turn tricks for so you can get our attention. We're people. Stop talking about us like we're not.
*stabbities*
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Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 12:27 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 05:06 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 10:40 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 11:57 pm (UTC)And as many of us here are also writers, scholars of the English language to some degree, of course we're going to hold you to our standards for what passes as decent writing.
FYI, English-major-wannabe, paragraphs are very important if you want to make yourself understood. Understood paragraphs. The first sentence is the topic sentence, which is the argument the paragraph will make.
And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress. You're just here to change our minds into cutting your sorry ass some slack because... what? Why should I?
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 01:21 am (UTC)Well said. I'll keep using that phrase too. Just like when you mentioned you weren't trying to understand me from the beginning. Uhhm, I don't think everyone here would agree with the thing about progress. Not even yourself (the properly thinking version). You are here for a purpose, and to acheive that purpose you have to make progress......duh...
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 01:53 am (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 04:12 am (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 04:47 am (UTC)You must be so happy here. This is probably the most female attention you'll ever have in your entire life.
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 05:14 am (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-05 03:15 am (UTC)Running out of things to say, eh?
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-05 06:05 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 04:21 am (UTC)We're writers. Of course we're looking at it. It's also your sole avenue for representing yourself in discussion. Not impressive.
I mean, I COMPLIMENTED someone for their writing,
In a skeevy over-the-top manner that just screamed This Guy Wants Attention.
If you're gonna be commenting here on this blog in response to me or someone else, let it be with the intent to make progress.
This is not your blog.You don't get to make the rules for the rest of us.
Laying down the law for us again?
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 10:31 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 10:34 pm (UTC)Why are you so vested in changing our minds anyway? It's not like you're listening to anything we're saying. And you think patronizing scoldings like "bad taste" and "you shouldn't cuss" will work? Who do you think you are, our mother?
I don't have a continuous desire for anything; I just think you're hilarious in your dogged naivety. Hell I was just as naive a couple of years ago, but at least I was willing to learn.
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 10:49 pm (UTC)If you are not single now, then you never gave up. You got exactly what you wanted. Yeah, I've been called naive for wanting good, but everyone wants good. Just because YOU (speaking in general) haven't gotten it, doesn't mean that no one else with your same hope won't either. That's a crazy [laugh]...How in the world did I indicate that I didn't learn or I can't learn? Uhhm, many people live never to see their match happen. That's life. Oh, and the changing your minds, well, it's....well, I know I can't just change your minds, but I can at least give you reasons why. "cuss" all you want, but I still ask that you don't. No, I don't think I'm your mothers or fathers, but I am your brother by spirit and welcoming friend by will. Hate me, but I love you. [laugh]...Ok, sounded mushy, but yeah.
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 10:58 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 11:11 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 01:26 am (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 01:50 am (UTC)We're talking about "perfect matches". The idealization that there can be a perfect love that will happen and things will be hunky-dory even through the bad times. THAT is a fallacy.
Not even love can detract from the fact that sometimes, life is shit. Love can make it better, but it's not the be-all, end-all you make it out to be. There is more to the strength in people than just romance.
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 04:02 am (UTC)Uhhm...that's disbelief there my friend. I never said Perfect love, but I and did say PERFECT MATCH. If someone has bf/gf:wife/husband and because they love each other greatly, nothing separates them as bf/gf:wife/husband, that's a perfect match. Love keeps even the separated connected, however. Where in the world did you get the idea that I believe "romance" is main part to the strength in people? "There is more to the strength in people than just romance." I never said it was.
???????
"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 08:22 pm (UTC)You're REALLY stuck on traditional ideals, and it's not my fault you can't let go of them.
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 10:40 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 10:53 pm (UTC)Hell, I'd say you're here to preach a propoganda of regression but that'd be too clever of you.
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-05 06:17 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-05 06:42 pm (UTC)