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Aug. 25th, 2009 09:44 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jhameiaSo tonight I revisited a post written by the awesome cycads on "foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds". Namely, the fetishization of foreign women by (mostly white) men.
I've said before, one of the reasons why I don't often discuss my own fetishes is that I don't feel I can own them, because I, as an Asian woman, AM a fetish. Most people don't surf for "white girl porn". They're usually just looking for porn. But "Asian" - ah, that's a specialty genre. It creeps me out when I hear guys drool over how cute Asian girls are (and usually, girls), how Eastern brides (whether or not Asian, sometimes European) are so much more submissive than [America]s.
Tonight, I read a(n admittedly old) comment which perfectly exemplifies all the fucking skeeviness about guys searching for foreign brides:
What is this pureness, cycads asks. Surely you mean 'uniqueness'. Oh no, according to this guy,
This virtuous woman, who must be specifically from a different ethnicity and heritage because somehow, that enables her to retain her purity? What the hell does her heritage have to do with it, besides his wanting to spread his genetics further afield (ew yuck!)?
HOLD ON.
....
HOLD ON.
....
OH MY JESUS ALLAH BUDDHA.
Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.
OH, HI, GUY?
We are not your pets and toys.
We do not exist to be shaped and molded by you.
In fact, that is VERY reminiscent of what abusers do to their victims: isolate them from where they belong to, force them to conform to their ideals.
WTF is this? It's so reminiscent of guys who take virgins so they can train said virgins to their own specific tastes. Sure, it makes sense on some level. If you, you know, make the assumption that your partner is not a person who deserves to live and be shaped by her own experiences. If you like your partner to not be her own person when you claim her.
The whole "partner as possession" factor is made of creepiness. I used to think it was hot, but the more confident I become in myself, the more independent I am (and liking it), the scarier this thought is. And it is everywhere.
The worst thing? This is supposed to be ROMANTIC. The whole "average dude wins angel" trope is supposed to be AWESOME and COOL because it shows that WOMEN ARE TOTALLY NOT SUPERFICIAL (no wait, isn't it the OTHER way around???) and that Good Guys Win the Girl!
Sick sad Nice Guy™ Waiting To Happen backpedals:
My response? It is clear you do not come even close to comprehending just how goddamn problematic that framing is. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean that literally. Either way, if that is what you mean, you are filled with Communication Fail.
The company of women is not something to be "earned". By saying that, you frame women as something to be "earned", thus as trophies, as objects to be won. Ergo, as objects.
It is clear you do not even realize you have echoed the sentiments of abusers who isolate their victims, taking the latter from places of comfort for the former's amusement (or sense of control). Or maybe you do realize it and you're just backpedaling.
It is clear you do not even see how you have Other'd cultures different from your own, and women in general.
It is also damned clear you are a Nice Guy-ism™ waiting to happen.
Hell, you know what, I don't even care what you meant.
Attitudes like that are poisonous to both men and women, setting up impossible standards, boxing people into specific codes of behaviour which we could all do without. I am NOT an exotic foreign bride waiting to enter into your life and give you the happiness you oh-so-long-for - neither is ANY OTHER WOMAN, whether Asian or not.
Women aren't trophies, dammit. We're not the fucking Stanley Cup, we're not something you EARN like a fucking salary to keep you alive, we're not something you turn tricks for so you can get our attention. We're people. Stop talking about us like we're not.
*stabbities*
I've said before, one of the reasons why I don't often discuss my own fetishes is that I don't feel I can own them, because I, as an Asian woman, AM a fetish. Most people don't surf for "white girl porn". They're usually just looking for porn. But "Asian" - ah, that's a specialty genre. It creeps me out when I hear guys drool over how cute Asian girls are (and usually, girls), how Eastern brides (whether or not Asian, sometimes European) are so much more submissive than [America]s.
Tonight, I read a(n admittedly old) comment which perfectly exemplifies all the fucking skeeviness about guys searching for foreign brides:
Right now, I have been hoping to find a nice foreign wife, and I am most interested particular groups. I would be greatly satisfied to find an equally special wife of my own ethnicity, but I want her different ethnicity cultural background to in a way help represent a certain pureness that is not easily obtained.
What is this pureness, cycads asks. Surely you mean 'uniqueness'. Oh no, according to this guy,
The [laugh]….”pureness” I was speaking of is actually all part of my intent to find a girl whose character is is very special. A virtuous woman.
This virtuous woman, who must be specifically from a different ethnicity and heritage because somehow, that enables her to retain her purity? What the hell does her heritage have to do with it, besides his wanting to spread his genetics further afield (ew yuck!)?
Her difference and race is an additional attempt to amplify the idea. Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.
HOLD ON.
....
HOLD ON.
....
OH MY JESUS ALLAH BUDDHA.
Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.
OH, HI, GUY?
We are not your pets and toys.
We do not exist to be shaped and molded by you.
In fact, that is VERY reminiscent of what abusers do to their victims: isolate them from where they belong to, force them to conform to their ideals.
WTF is this? It's so reminiscent of guys who take virgins so they can train said virgins to their own specific tastes. Sure, it makes sense on some level. If you, you know, make the assumption that your partner is not a person who deserves to live and be shaped by her own experiences. If you like your partner to not be her own person when you claim her.
The whole "partner as possession" factor is made of creepiness. I used to think it was hot, but the more confident I become in myself, the more independent I am (and liking it), the scarier this thought is. And it is everywhere.
The worst thing? This is supposed to be ROMANTIC. The whole "average dude wins angel" trope is supposed to be AWESOME and COOL because it shows that WOMEN ARE TOTALLY NOT SUPERFICIAL (no wait, isn't it the OTHER way around???) and that Good Guys Win the Girl!
Sick sad Nice Guy™ Waiting To Happen backpedals:
It’s clear you may not have immediately understood that I didn’t mean by force and I didn’t literally mean “pulling”. I simply mean just earning the company of someone by “drawing” their attention or interests to oneself.
My response? It is clear you do not come even close to comprehending just how goddamn problematic that framing is. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean that literally. Either way, if that is what you mean, you are filled with Communication Fail.
The company of women is not something to be "earned". By saying that, you frame women as something to be "earned", thus as trophies, as objects to be won. Ergo, as objects.
It is clear you do not even realize you have echoed the sentiments of abusers who isolate their victims, taking the latter from places of comfort for the former's amusement (or sense of control). Or maybe you do realize it and you're just backpedaling.
It is clear you do not even see how you have Other'd cultures different from your own, and women in general.
It is also damned clear you are a Nice Guy-ism™ waiting to happen.
Hell, you know what, I don't even care what you meant.
Attitudes like that are poisonous to both men and women, setting up impossible standards, boxing people into specific codes of behaviour which we could all do without. I am NOT an exotic foreign bride waiting to enter into your life and give you the happiness you oh-so-long-for - neither is ANY OTHER WOMAN, whether Asian or not.
Women aren't trophies, dammit. We're not the fucking Stanley Cup, we're not something you EARN like a fucking salary to keep you alive, we're not something you turn tricks for so you can get our attention. We're people. Stop talking about us like we're not.
*stabbities*
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 10:33 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-03 11:59 pm (UTC)Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 05:39 am (UTC)"I'm pretty confident my LJ friends are all comprehensive readers. If they failed to understand simple concepts like detailed above, they wouldn't be LJ friends."
Otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.
"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 06:14 am (UTC)Today we're going to learn about a kind of sentence called a question.
Questions start with words like HOW and WHEN and WHY and WHERE.
But most importantly You can spot a question because it ends with a question mark.
That looks like this: ?
Got that?
Remember, boys and girls, if it ends with a period, it's not a question, just a regular old statement.
Some of you might have a hard time remembering that, but just keep practising and you'll catch up eventually! Don't forget your homework now. Y'all have a nice day!
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-04 04:42 pm (UTC)What was the focus of this entire post again? I thought it was about white men seeking asian women and also about the men:woman relationship.
?????????
"And who said we're here to make progress? You're not here to make progress."
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-05 01:42 am (UTC)WE NEED A DUNCE CAP FOR THIS ONE OVER HERE!!! =D
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-05 02:46 am (UTC)Welcome to the wonderful world of knowing things.
Which doesn't really help unless you understand them, but wevs.
Re: From the moron who wrote the stuff.....
Date: 2009-09-06 02:26 am (UTC)Information from Gareth:
“Being a white, straight man gives me a ton load of privilege, and that privilege is systemic and global. I am aware of my various privileges and can learn to ‘check them in at the door’, but I can never get rid of them. My privileges are not just to do with me, but they emanate from a system of privilege and prejudice with global reach. Everyone who is white or a man has these privileges, and they are not mitigated by being poor, working class, disabled, gay or being part of any other oppressed minority: you just get the mix of certain privileges with certain prejudices against you (this is intersectionality; more on that later).”
“The male gaze is sexist when all it sees is a smile, breasts, legs, bottom and so forth. The sufferer of Asian fetishism takes this sexist objectification of women and adds skin tone, cheekbones, small build and slit-eyes into the mix. The sufferer of Asian fetishism does not care what your name is as long as it does not sound too white; he can not tell the difference whether you are Vietnamese, Thai, Indonesian or Chinese.”
From Jha:
"Oh, Cat, that’s awful! And I thought it was bad that my friends think white men having an Asian fetish is a good thing! >_<"
From Cat:
"Living in another country, reading the news and being in touch with the world proves to me that it is just another stereotype of white men."
From Cycad's quote:
"When race and ethnicity become commodified as resources for pleasure, the culture of specific groups, as well as as the bodies of individuals, can be seen as constituting an alternative playground where members of dominating races, genders, sexual practices affirm their power-over in intimate relations with the Other."
From you:
"The focus is whatever the owner wants it to be and right now that's schooling the flat lily ass of some white boy who thinks an Asian girl will be more impressed by his micropeen."