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Aug. 25th, 2009 09:44 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jhameiaSo tonight I revisited a post written by the awesome cycads on "foreign bodies as sexual playgrounds". Namely, the fetishization of foreign women by (mostly white) men.
I've said before, one of the reasons why I don't often discuss my own fetishes is that I don't feel I can own them, because I, as an Asian woman, AM a fetish. Most people don't surf for "white girl porn". They're usually just looking for porn. But "Asian" - ah, that's a specialty genre. It creeps me out when I hear guys drool over how cute Asian girls are (and usually, girls), how Eastern brides (whether or not Asian, sometimes European) are so much more submissive than [America]s.
Tonight, I read a(n admittedly old) comment which perfectly exemplifies all the fucking skeeviness about guys searching for foreign brides:
What is this pureness, cycads asks. Surely you mean 'uniqueness'. Oh no, according to this guy,
This virtuous woman, who must be specifically from a different ethnicity and heritage because somehow, that enables her to retain her purity? What the hell does her heritage have to do with it, besides his wanting to spread his genetics further afield (ew yuck!)?
HOLD ON.
....
HOLD ON.
....
OH MY JESUS ALLAH BUDDHA.
Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.
OH, HI, GUY?
We are not your pets and toys.
We do not exist to be shaped and molded by you.
In fact, that is VERY reminiscent of what abusers do to their victims: isolate them from where they belong to, force them to conform to their ideals.
WTF is this? It's so reminiscent of guys who take virgins so they can train said virgins to their own specific tastes. Sure, it makes sense on some level. If you, you know, make the assumption that your partner is not a person who deserves to live and be shaped by her own experiences. If you like your partner to not be her own person when you claim her.
The whole "partner as possession" factor is made of creepiness. I used to think it was hot, but the more confident I become in myself, the more independent I am (and liking it), the scarier this thought is. And it is everywhere.
The worst thing? This is supposed to be ROMANTIC. The whole "average dude wins angel" trope is supposed to be AWESOME and COOL because it shows that WOMEN ARE TOTALLY NOT SUPERFICIAL (no wait, isn't it the OTHER way around???) and that Good Guys Win the Girl!
Sick sad Nice Guy™ Waiting To Happen backpedals:
My response? It is clear you do not come even close to comprehending just how goddamn problematic that framing is. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean that literally. Either way, if that is what you mean, you are filled with Communication Fail.
The company of women is not something to be "earned". By saying that, you frame women as something to be "earned", thus as trophies, as objects to be won. Ergo, as objects.
It is clear you do not even realize you have echoed the sentiments of abusers who isolate their victims, taking the latter from places of comfort for the former's amusement (or sense of control). Or maybe you do realize it and you're just backpedaling.
It is clear you do not even see how you have Other'd cultures different from your own, and women in general.
It is also damned clear you are a Nice Guy-ism™ waiting to happen.
Hell, you know what, I don't even care what you meant.
Attitudes like that are poisonous to both men and women, setting up impossible standards, boxing people into specific codes of behaviour which we could all do without. I am NOT an exotic foreign bride waiting to enter into your life and give you the happiness you oh-so-long-for - neither is ANY OTHER WOMAN, whether Asian or not.
Women aren't trophies, dammit. We're not the fucking Stanley Cup, we're not something you EARN like a fucking salary to keep you alive, we're not something you turn tricks for so you can get our attention. We're people. Stop talking about us like we're not.
*stabbities*
I've said before, one of the reasons why I don't often discuss my own fetishes is that I don't feel I can own them, because I, as an Asian woman, AM a fetish. Most people don't surf for "white girl porn". They're usually just looking for porn. But "Asian" - ah, that's a specialty genre. It creeps me out when I hear guys drool over how cute Asian girls are (and usually, girls), how Eastern brides (whether or not Asian, sometimes European) are so much more submissive than [America]s.
Tonight, I read a(n admittedly old) comment which perfectly exemplifies all the fucking skeeviness about guys searching for foreign brides:
Right now, I have been hoping to find a nice foreign wife, and I am most interested particular groups. I would be greatly satisfied to find an equally special wife of my own ethnicity, but I want her different ethnicity cultural background to in a way help represent a certain pureness that is not easily obtained.
What is this pureness, cycads asks. Surely you mean 'uniqueness'. Oh no, according to this guy,
The [laugh]….”pureness” I was speaking of is actually all part of my intent to find a girl whose character is is very special. A virtuous woman.
This virtuous woman, who must be specifically from a different ethnicity and heritage because somehow, that enables her to retain her purity? What the hell does her heritage have to do with it, besides his wanting to spread his genetics further afield (ew yuck!)?
Her difference and race is an additional attempt to amplify the idea. Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.
HOLD ON.
....
HOLD ON.
....
OH MY JESUS ALLAH BUDDHA.
Kinda like pulling an angel from the heavens into a land far from their own.
OH, HI, GUY?
We are not your pets and toys.
We do not exist to be shaped and molded by you.
In fact, that is VERY reminiscent of what abusers do to their victims: isolate them from where they belong to, force them to conform to their ideals.
WTF is this? It's so reminiscent of guys who take virgins so they can train said virgins to their own specific tastes. Sure, it makes sense on some level. If you, you know, make the assumption that your partner is not a person who deserves to live and be shaped by her own experiences. If you like your partner to not be her own person when you claim her.
The whole "partner as possession" factor is made of creepiness. I used to think it was hot, but the more confident I become in myself, the more independent I am (and liking it), the scarier this thought is. And it is everywhere.
The worst thing? This is supposed to be ROMANTIC. The whole "average dude wins angel" trope is supposed to be AWESOME and COOL because it shows that WOMEN ARE TOTALLY NOT SUPERFICIAL (no wait, isn't it the OTHER way around???) and that Good Guys Win the Girl!
Sick sad Nice Guy™ Waiting To Happen backpedals:
It’s clear you may not have immediately understood that I didn’t mean by force and I didn’t literally mean “pulling”. I simply mean just earning the company of someone by “drawing” their attention or interests to oneself.
My response? It is clear you do not come even close to comprehending just how goddamn problematic that framing is. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean that literally. Either way, if that is what you mean, you are filled with Communication Fail.
The company of women is not something to be "earned". By saying that, you frame women as something to be "earned", thus as trophies, as objects to be won. Ergo, as objects.
It is clear you do not even realize you have echoed the sentiments of abusers who isolate their victims, taking the latter from places of comfort for the former's amusement (or sense of control). Or maybe you do realize it and you're just backpedaling.
It is clear you do not even see how you have Other'd cultures different from your own, and women in general.
It is also damned clear you are a Nice Guy-ism™ waiting to happen.
Hell, you know what, I don't even care what you meant.
Attitudes like that are poisonous to both men and women, setting up impossible standards, boxing people into specific codes of behaviour which we could all do without. I am NOT an exotic foreign bride waiting to enter into your life and give you the happiness you oh-so-long-for - neither is ANY OTHER WOMAN, whether Asian or not.
Women aren't trophies, dammit. We're not the fucking Stanley Cup, we're not something you EARN like a fucking salary to keep you alive, we're not something you turn tricks for so you can get our attention. We're people. Stop talking about us like we're not.
*stabbities*
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Re: Oh man! Awesome! I never get to use this icon!
Date: 2009-09-05 03:14 am (UTC)History lesson for you: women have always done hard labour. Historically, women have worked harder than men.
Don't bring up my mother unless you want me to bring up yours. Disrespectful shit, but you probably didn't know that.
Re: Oh man! Awesome! I never get to use this icon!
Date: 2009-09-05 07:54 pm (UTC)Uhhmm, ok, I agree with that, but I didn't say that she never does the hard work, and i never said or indicated that history proves what I said.
History lesson, I wasn't being selfish or sexist, I guess, in what I said. I said,
"...Woman fight too, but if the man is writing, I think she'll probably feel like he is using her. She is ASKED not to enter the harder things so that she can help the the guiding mind to her man so that his actions are not misdirected."
If you look at the first sentence, this is my feelings IN CONSIDERATION OF WOMEN. Do you really think I'm trying to be selfish?I said it right after the "women write, man fight" stuff. And about the second sentence here, I'm showing it to again show that it's my thoughts. She is usually the more conscientious of man (generally speaking of men and women).
Re: Oh man! Awesome! I never get to use this icon!
Date: 2009-09-05 09:11 pm (UTC)Though, while we're on the subject of things women are asking for, I think
"equality" is higher up on the list than "to be protected by teh menz".
Re: Oh man! Awesome! I never get to use this icon!
Date: 2009-09-05 09:42 pm (UTC)Re: Oh man! Awesome! I never get to use this icon!
Date: 2009-09-05 10:52 pm (UTC)Because women generally are told not to fight. Yet they have followed soldiers on the battlefield anyway, facing even more danger, having even more responsibilities. Even today, women fighting are not given the same recognition as men.
She wasn't twisting what you said. You really need to understand that what you think you write may not be what everyone else reads.
Re: Oh man! Awesome! I never get to use this icon!
Date: 2009-09-06 12:26 am (UTC)Re: Oh man! Awesome! I never get to use this icon!
Date: 2009-09-06 12:57 am (UTC)The language that you use shows, time and time again, that you are a misogynist.
Dear cod, I hope you never date anyone if you keep this shit up. You're an abusive relationship waiting to happen.
Re: Oh man! Awesome! I never get to use this icon!
Date: 2009-09-06 01:30 am (UTC)Re: Oh man! Awesome! I never get to use this icon!
Date: 2009-09-06 01:34 am (UTC)Re: Oh man! Awesome! I never get to use this icon!
Date: 2009-09-06 01:37 am (UTC)