I am running this comment on the assumption that you’re serious. If you were being ironic, you suck at it.
I can’t even read the review without having to suffer through another tirade about that.
Then stop reading her fucking LJ.
It’s not racist! It’s geographical! There’s the Orient, there’s the Occident.
Thank you for the palesplaination. I do note that the word has, and has always had, negative connotations of “backwardness”, which is why people consider it annoying and racist.
Besides, what color is the skin of an Oriental person? Can you tell me?
Am I offended? Hells no!
That’s because it doesn’t affect you on a daily basis, because you don’t live it.
Because you’re not offended doesn’t mean that other people can’t get upset about it.
There are lots of different countries and cultures and beliefs and peoples through a wide area that is much more accurately known as Asia and Asia in turn can be broken down – which you should do, because what the hell does it mean to be Asian, anyway?
More than you do, by the looks of it. Aside from the fact that, as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) fantasyecho prefers to be more specific than just calling herself “Asian”, as if you can lump a whole group of people into a huge mass.
Do folks in Tokyo and Vladivostok and Tel Aviv identify themselves as Asian as readily as folks in Mumbai, Bangkok, and Beijing? Probably not!
Have you asked?
Discourage the usage and leave it at that, please. Your sanctimoniousness is more vexing than it is educational.
In short, stop reminding me that the culture I live in and exemplify has a terrible history and huge cultural baggage against other more vulnerable people.
There is a phrase in Malay, “whoever eats the chili, feels the burn”. Are you feeling the burn? Is that why you’re screeching like you’ve bitten off cili padi over what is, frankly, not a very spicy dish?
Will, you're rather upset over what's just one paragraph on something that totally doesn't affect you. Remember the time in the cafe you were bemoaning about how you were "such a tool" and you kept apologizing for bad behaviour way back when? I'm not really seeing an improvement.
Seriously, is my ranting about Orientalism so disturbing to you? Why, exactly, is it vexing?
Ah, the tone argument. I can't help how you feel about it. How do you think I feel, having to explain the term over and over again? How many times have I explained it to you, personally? That explanation wasn't even directed at you, and you still took it personally.
As to "it has no meaning". Where do I even start? It's not the intention that matters, but the effect it has. Just because the meaning is fluid and a construct does not mean it does not have real effects on actual human beings. I very strongly urge you to look into the effects of Orientalism and its continued existence. I could start explaining to you the systemic effects, but that would take a whole 101 post, and a lot of emotional energy that I'm already saving for another day.
"Asian". Is it really that hard? Didn't I say this before? "People are Asian". I'm quite sure I wrote that.
I've never personally heard oriental used disparagingly
Here's the thing about the term "Oriental" and I shall give you a quick Coles Notes version. When it was first created, it wasn't meant as a disparaging term. It just meant "those exotic, decadent, morally bankrupt, beautiful, luxurious, despotic cultures so different and alien to our perfectly cultured European types". Orientalism used to refer to "the study of the Orient", usually done by men who had never visited the Orient, and viewed it through a specific lens, that of "we in Europe are superior."
Now, you can use your Google-fu to find out the more of it. Or look up Edward Said's book, Orientalism. I think the SMU library has a copy.
Oh, that's nice, William. It's really good to know that your freedom to use words however you want trumps my right as a human being, a visible minority even, to define these words often used to label who I am. Your principles are more important to you than who I am.
We've gone over this before on Twitter, Will. The first time is a learning opportunity. The second time begins a pattern. The third time this happens, I quit calling you my friend.
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(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-13 05:16 pm (UTC)I am running this comment on the assumption that you’re serious. If you were being ironic, you suck at it.
Then stop reading her fucking LJ.
Thank you for the palesplaination. I do note that the word has, and has always had, negative connotations of “backwardness”, which is why people consider it annoying and racist.
Besides, what color is the skin of an Oriental person? Can you tell me?
That’s because it doesn’t affect you on a daily basis, because you don’t live it.
Because you’re not offended doesn’t mean that other people can’t get upset about it.
More than you do, by the looks of it. Aside from the fact that, as far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong)![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
fantasyecho prefers to be more specific than just calling herself “Asian”, as if you can lump a whole group of people into a huge mass.
Have you asked?
In short, stop reminding me that the culture I live in and exemplify has a terrible history and huge cultural baggage against other more vulnerable people.
There is a phrase in Malay, “whoever eats the chili, feels the burn”. Are you feeling the burn? Is that why you’re screeching like you’ve bitten off cili padi over what is, frankly, not a very spicy dish?
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-13 05:25 pm (UTC)Seriously, is my ranting about Orientalism so disturbing to you? Why, exactly, is it vexing?
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-13 06:23 pm (UTC)There's a bit of a beam in your eye there.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-13 06:31 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-13 06:30 pm (UTC)As to "it has no meaning". Where do I even start? It's not the intention that matters, but the effect it has. Just because the meaning is fluid and a construct does not mean it does not have real effects on actual human beings. I very strongly urge you to look into the effects of Orientalism and its continued existence. I could start explaining to you the systemic effects, but that would take a whole 101 post, and a lot of emotional energy that I'm already saving for another day.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-13 06:53 pm (UTC)I've never personally heard oriental used disparagingly
Here's the thing about the term "Oriental" and I shall give you a quick Coles Notes version. When it was first created, it wasn't meant as a disparaging term. It just meant "those exotic, decadent, morally bankrupt, beautiful, luxurious, despotic cultures so different and alien to our perfectly cultured European types". Orientalism used to refer to "the study of the Orient", usually done by men who had never visited the Orient, and viewed it through a specific lens, that of "we in Europe are superior."
Now, you can use your Google-fu to find out the more of it. Or look up Edward Said's book, Orientalism. I think the SMU library has a copy.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-14 12:26 am (UTC)We've gone over this before on Twitter, Will. The first time is a learning opportunity. The second time begins a pattern. The third time this happens, I quit calling you my friend.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-12-14 12:27 am (UTC)